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Ahmed Rashid: 'Afghanistan chaos will suck in neighboring countries'

05.07.2021

In an exclusive interview with DW, Ahmed Rashid, one of the most renowned experts on Afghanistan, sheds light on the reasons behind the current turmoil in the war-torn country and its implications for the region.

DW: What's your take on the current situation in Afghanistan?

Ahmed Rashid: The Taliban are emerging victorious not just in their traditional areas in the south of Afghanistan, like Kandahar or Helmand, but also in northern districts such as Mazar-e-Sharif. The government forces seem to be on the backfoot, while warlords are re-arming to fight the Taliban.

It's an extremely dangerous situation that can suck in the neighboring countries. If that happens, that will be the end of Afghanistan.

Why did the peace talks in Doha fail to yield the desired results?

The Americans gave away far too much in this deal with the Taliban and without anything in return. The Taliban got many concessions but Kabul got nothing. Former US President Donald Trump was in a hurry to end the negotiations as soon as possible and nobody could control him.

The Taliban's relaunch would have never happened without Pakistan's help, says Rashid

How do you look at the role of Afghan President Ashraf Ghani in all this?

Ghani has not been able to unite the people under a common position of dialogue with the Taliban. The militants know this and that's one of the reasons why they have refused to talk with Ghani so far, and also refused to accept the American plan for the Doha talks and the conference in Turkey.

Is Pakistan's support still a major factor behind the Taliban's advances?

As long as the Pakistani military and intelligence continue to give them the sanctuary, there is no need for the Taliban to accept any compromise or any deal or any dialogue with Kabul. Why should they when their leaders are safe and their families are safe? If Pakistan wants to show its sincerity, it needs to immediately force the Taliban leaders to either compromise or leave their sanctuaries in Quetta or in Peshawar.

The warlords never left after the Taliban defeat in 2001. Wasn't this part of the problem from the very beginning?

All these warlords were brought to Kabul by the Americans after the defeat of the Taliban. Many of them joined the government, often in senior positions. But there was no overarching security or political plan to unite these people. Elections were rigged by the warlords, by [former President] Hamid Karzai and then Ghani.

The real failure has been the lack of unity among the Afghan resistance, but it's also been an international failure. The NATO and the rest of the international forces should have paid attention to that from the beginning. They left the issue in the hands of the UN, but the latter lacked the support of the Americans, who walked away from Afghanistan to fight a new war in Iraq. Afghans were left very much on their own and that allowed the Taliban to come back.

02:20 mins.
DW News | 02.07.2021

Foreign troops leave Bagram air base in Afghanistan

So why did Washington keep supporting Pakistan?

They were supporting former President Pervez Musharraf, who used a dual strategy: he was backing American drone operations from Pakistani bases and at the same time supporting the Taliban.

The Taliban's relaunch would have never happened without Pakistan's help. By 2002, they had been totally wiped out, but by 2004, they were already a major force in Afghanistan. Their revival is a matter of neglect by the US and the stupidity of going to Iraq in 2003. It was in those first two years when all the progress was achieved in education and rebuilding. Then, the Taliban came back and endangered everyone.

China has a growing presence in the region and strong ties with Pakistan. What's their plan regarding Afghanistan?

Three years ago, when Beijing started to talk with the Taliban in China, and Chinese delegations were meeting the Taliban in Pakistan, it appeared that the Chinese might be very positive about making peace so their Belt and Road Initiative could go smoothly. The Taliban didn't agree with the Chinese and didn't accept their strategy.

I think the Chinese realized that they didn't want to get sucked into a never-ending conflict. They eventually stepped back and moved away from encouraging peace processes in Afghanistan.

01:54 mins.
DW News | 25.06.2021

Afghanistan: Militias form to counter Taliban

Is an Afghanistan under the influence of India still among Pakistan's biggest fears?

Yes, but they also have this ambition not to govern Afghanistan but to make sure that the leadership in Afghanistan is always pro-Pakistan. Islamabad didn't like Karzai because he was too independent, and they don't like Ghani because his vice president keeps talking about the role of Pakistan in a negative way.

Pakistan will never be happy with anyone in Afghanistan because Afghans are nationalists, they are patriots. 'Who are these people sitting in Pakistan telling us how to rule ourselves?' is what most Afghans think. The Taliban cannot bring unity to Afghanistan because of their religious beliefs, which are not accepted by any other Afghan group.

Are the Taliban capable of running the country if they eventually take over Kabul?

The Taliban don't believe in democracy. They just want the collapse of the government so they can reconquer Afghanistan and reimpose their system with a few modifications. The media will be under their control and some women will have the chance to work, but in full burqa. What has changed? Absolutely nothing.

Ahmed Rashid is a Pakistani journalist and best-selling author of several books, including "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia."

The interview was conducted by Karlos Zurutuza in Madrid, Spain.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
Scrap as far as the eye can see

Historians may debate the political legacy of the US mission in Afghanistan. But the physical legacy is clear in the massive amounts of scrap metal and trash left behind. The US military's exit from Bagram Air Base is part of Washington's plans to completely withdraw troops from Afghanistan before the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
Where to put all the garbage?

US soldiers will either take their equipment with them or give it to local security forces. But troops will leave plenty behind — such as junk, packaging and electronic waste. More than a 100,000 US troops have served at Bagram since 2001. The base, 70 kilometers north (40 miles) of Kabul, has grown into a small American town, complete with a shopping center and fast-food restaurants.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
One man's garbage, another man's treasure

The junkyard just outside the base has become popular with fortune hunters. They come in large numbers to sift through the trash, on the lookout for something useful — like this pair of military boots. Their hope is to sell what they find for money.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
Searching for electronic treasure

Large amounts of electronic waste are also buried in the dump. People are on the lookout for circuit boards that contain parts and screws that can be reused. Some even contain valuable materials like copper and even tiny amounts of gold. For Americans, it's all garbage. But for Afghans who earn just €500 ($695) a year, it's something of a treasure.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
What will become of Bagram?

Bagram, at the foot of the Hindu Kush mountains, has a long history as an army base. The Soviet army used the base during its invasion in 1979. Many now fear that when the Americans leave, Bagram will fall into the hands of the Taliban — a strategic victory for the Islamists.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
A risky withdrawal

Troops have been officially withdrawing since May 1 and there's no time to get rid of the garbage as well. Heavy weapons and additional forces were kept on standby for possible Taliban attacks during the withdrawal. In the final weeks leading up to the withdrawal, a total of 36 NATO and partner countries were still involved in the mission, including 2,500 American soldiers and 1,100 from Germany.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
Women at work

Here, a girl salvages a battered metal crate from the scrapyard. Despite the hardships, girls and women have profited the most from the US-led military mission and the fall of the Taliban in 2001. They have been able to attend school and, as adults, work in areas previously inaccessible to them, including high court offices and other institutions.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
People left behind

Some people find things of pure sentimental value in the junkyard, to remind them of the base. Numerous settlements of local Afghan forces have sprung up around Bagram, and their existence has depended on the base. Many now wonder what will become of them and their families.

As US troops leave, Afghanistan buried under American trash
What remains?

So what's left of the US presence in the Hindu Kush, aside from worn-out boots and rusty wire? US President Joe Biden promised a "sustained" partnership during a June 25 White House meeting with his Afghan counterpart, Ashraf Ghani. Millions of Afghan will be taking Biden at his word.

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Karlos Zurutuza (Madrid)