Asked whether Ukraine still needs the long-range Taurus missiles which Germany could provide, Pistorius puts the emphasis on technological advances Kyiv is already making. "They achieved developments, especially in the last 12, 18 months, which are really impressive when it comes to drones and missiles, long distance drones. They are really very successful. And we see the effect in Russia."

He also says he thinks Ukraine could do without Taurus. "I think they don't need it really."