Intellectuals who have fled Turkey to Germany are said to be under threat. Cem Özdemir, co-leader of the Green Party, thinks security could be improved and finds it unacceptable that parallel societies exist in Germany.
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DW: Garo Paylan is a lawmaker of Armenian descent in Turkey's parliament and a member of the pro-Kurdish Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP). He claims that Turkish academics, journalists and literary figures who have fled the governing Justice and Development Party (AKP) of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan are in grave danger, particularly those who have come to Germany. Paylan says they could fall victim to attacks plotted out of Turkey. What is your take on this?
Cem Özdemir: I have no information about this; so there is little I can say concretely on the matter. But it wouldn't surprise me given that Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian journalist and a good friend of mine, was killed by a 16-year-old [in Istanbul] — and it's known that the Turkish state played a role in this murder. Then you also see how Turkish dissidents are not only jailed, silenced or expelled but also intimidated and subjected to physical violence. Germany should be aware of this and above all else prevent the growth of separate societal structures. Some examples of this already exist, such as Osmanen Germania, a Turkish-nationalist boxing gang, or the Union of European Turkish Democrats (UETD). [Editors' note: The UETD is considered to be the AKP's external lobby group.]
Do you think people with aTurkish background in Germany are in actual danger?
Journalists are always asking me about this, including German ones who have information on the topic. Curiously, Germany's security agencies rarely approach me about this. I have to approach them myself. I'm under the impression that our security apparatus could be improved when it comes to the danger from Turkey. I don't mean that with regard to my own safety but with regard to the safety of all Turkish dissidents who've fled to Germany. There are many journalists, intellectuals and academics who've come to Cologne and Berlin, in particular. I recently attended an event by Turkish-Armenian journalist and blogger Hayko Bagdat, who has become a well-known figure in Berlin. He wore a bullet-proof vest because he'd received credible death threats a day earlier. I think we must make it clear that Germany will not tolerate such a climate of fear. It's bad enough that such fear already pervades Turkish society.
The police has informed DW that it is aware of "the dangerous situation" but that it cannot provide "details about specific security measures." Thousands of individuals have fled Turkey and come to Germany. There is supposedly even a "hit list" with dissidents' names on it. How can these individuals be protected?
It starts with little things. Turkey is placing dissidents on Interpol's list of wanted suspects. That constitutes a total abuse of this system. Interpol's wanted persons list is for terrorists and criminals only. Not for people who happen to have a different opinion. What happens to individuals who're put on the watch list? Are they informed of this? Are other EU member states informed that these individuals don't belong on the list and that nothing should happen to them? Or will they share the same fate as Dogan Akhanli, the Turkish-German writer who was recently detained for several months in Spain? It is time to realize that information like this from Turkey cannot be taken at face value. It needs to be treated with caution and checked rigorously. This is information originating out of an authoritarian country.
Cem Özdemir: "Erdogan wants to establish Turkey in Germany"
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You've said that journalists have informed you about potential dangers. You're a politician with Turkish roots. Have other people of Turkish background in Germany told you about threats?
No. But there was an instance where a local Green politician attended a UETD event and was told to come into an adjacent room before things got going. He was told that people know where he lives, that they know about his family, and that he should chose his words carefully at the event. Then they told him he shouldn't rely on the German state for protection. Now this politician is too intimidated to speak out publicly. He's scared for his safety in this country. That is an intolerable state of affairs. We cannot tolerate that these sorts of parallel structures from a foreign nation exist within Germany.
What should Germany's government do if its security apparatus confirms threat allegations? How could these people be protected?
I'd take the same approach we take with right-wing and left-wing extremists. I'd break up the responsible groups and make it crystal clear that the behavior of groups like the Osmanen Germania gang will simply not be tolerated. It's perplexing that groups like these are free to sow fear and nothing is done to stop them. That raises many questions.
It has been claimed that Turkey plans to send assassins to Europe. What can be done to ensure safety?
Germany has a security service, a counterintelligence department, which is responsible for dealing with this. And hopefully it will make it clear to Turkey that we won't tolerate its actions and that if anything happens, there will be severe consequences. But that of course means we must be willing to adopt a tough stance.
Cem Özdemir is the co-leader of Germany's Green Party. He was elected to the German parliament for the first time in 1994 as one of the first two representatives with Turkish-born parents.
Why are German and Turkish relations so strained?
German-Turkish relations have deteriorated since the failed coup against Turkish President Erdogan in 2016 and the crackdown that followed. DW looks at some of the key moments that soured ties between Berlin and Ankara.
Image: picture-alliance/POP-EYE/B. Kriemann
The Böhmermann affair
March 31, 2016: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan filed charges against German comedian and satirist Jan Böhmermann over his "defamatory poem" about the Turkish leader. German prosecutors eventually dropped the charges on October 4, 2016, but the case sparked a diplomatic row between Berlin and Ankara.
German lawmakers pass resolution to recognize 1915 Armenian Genocide
June 2, 2016: The resolution passed almost unanimously. In response, Turkey recalled its ambassador in Berlin and Germany's Turkish community held protests in several German cities. Turkey had repeatedly criticized the use of the term genocide to describe the Ottoman-era Armenian killings, arguing that the number of deaths had been inflated, and that Turkish Muslims also perished in the violence.
Image: Getty Images/AFP/S. Gallup
Tensions following failed coup in Turkey
July 15, 2016: A faction of the Turkish military tried to overthrow President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, but ultimately failed. Ankara accused Berlin of not taking a clear stand against the coup attempt or not doing anything about exiled preacher Fethullah Gulen's organization, who Erdogan blames for orchestrating the failed coup.
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/S. Suna
Germany criticizes post-coup purge
Immediately following the attempted coup, Turkish authorities purged the army and judiciary, detaining thousands of people. The purge expanded to include civil servants, university officials and teachers. German politicians criticize the detentions. Turkish diplomats, academics and military members fled the country and applied for asylum in Germany.
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/S. Suna
Kurdish rallies in Cologne
Erdogan's post-coup crackdown has also been condemned by Kurdish protesters at several mass demonstrations in the west German city of Cologne. Often the rallies have called for the release of Abdullah Ocalan, the jailed leader of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which Turkey considers to be a terror group. Ankara has accused Berlin of not doing enough to stop PKK activities.
Image: picture-alliance/AP Photo/M. Meissner
Arrest of German citizens in Turkey
February 14, 2017: Deniz Yücel, a correspondent for the "Welt" newspaper, was taken into custody in Turkey. Other German nationals, including journalist Mesale Tolu and human rights activist Peter Steudtner were detained in Turkey for what Berlin dubbed "political reasons." Turkey accused them of supporting terrorist organizations. All three have since been released pending trial.
March 2017: A number of German localities blocked Turkish ministers from holding rallies in their districts ahead of an April referendum in Turkey to enhance President Erdogan's powers. The Turkish leader then accused Germany of using "Nazi tactics" against Turkish citizens in Germany and visiting Turkish lawmakers. German leaders were not amused by the jibe, saying Erdogan had gone too far.
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/O. Berg
Spying allegations
March 30, 2017: Germany accused Turkey of spying on hundreds of suspected Gulen supporters as well as over 200 associations and schools linked to the Gulen movement in Germany. Turkish asylum-seekers have since accused officials working in Germany's immigration authority (BAMF) of passing on their information to media outlets with ties to the Turkish government.
Image: Imago/Chromeorange/M. Schroeder
Erdogan urges German-Turks not to vote for 'enemies of Turkey'
August 18, 2017: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan slammed three of Germany's main political parties as "enemies of Turkey" and told Turks living in Germany not to vote for them in September's general election. He singled out Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU), the Social Democrats (SPD), and the Greens. Merkel said Erdogan was "meddling" in Germany's election.
Image: picture-alliance/abaca/AA/M. Ali Ozcan
Merkel says Turkey should not become EU member
September 4, 2017: German Chancellor Angela Merkel said during an election debate that she didn't think Turkey should become a member of the European Union and said she would speak with other EU leaders about ending Ankara's accession talks. In October, she backed a move to cut Turkey's pre-accession EU funds.
Image: Reuters/F. Bensch
Turkey's military offensive in Afrin
January 20, 2018: The Turkish military and their Syrian rebel allies launched "Operation Olive Branch" against the Kurdish-held enclave of Afrin in northern Syria. The move was criticized by German politicians and prompted large protests by Kurdish communities in Germany.
Image: Getty Images/AFP/O. Kose
Journalist Deniz Yücel released from prison
February 16, 2018: Turkey ordered the release of German-Turkish journalist Deniz Yücel after he'd been held for over a year without charge. According to Turkish state media, Yücel was released on bail from pre-trial detention. Prosecutors asked for an 18-year jail sentence for Yücel on charges of "terror propaganda" and incitement.
Image: picture-alliance/Eventpress/Stauffenberg
Özil quits
July 2018: German footballer Mesut Özil quit the national team following the fallout from his meeting with the Turkish president. Özil said he was being made a scapegoat for Germany's forgettable performance at the FIFA World Cup in Moscow because of his Turkish heritage. Erdogan praised Özil's decision and slammed the "racist" mistreatment of the footballer.
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/Presidential Press Service
Travel ban lifted
August 2018: A Turkish court removed the travel ban on German journalist Mesale Tolu, who was arrested last year on terrorism-related charges. But the trial against Tolu, who has since returned to Germany, is set to continue. Her husband, Suat Corlu, who is facing similar charges, has been ordered to remain in Turkey.