In an exclusive DW interview, the US filmmaker Spike Lee talks about the Black Lives Matter protests in reaction to George Floyd's killing, reflects on the history of racism and his upcoming movie, "Da 5 Bloods."
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Spike Lee on Trump's legacy
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DW: I want to talk about your great new film, Da 5 Bloods; but first we have to talk about George Floyd. Another unarmed black American killed by police.
Spike Lee: That we saw on film!
What was your first reaction when you saw that video of George Floyd's killing?
I thought: I just saw this, with Eric Garner [killed by police on July 17, 2014]. I made a film about it: Do the Right Thing' (1989) was based upon the real-life chokehold murder of graffiti artist Michael Stewart [on September 15, 1983]. And then I began thinking about all those other black people being killed. Not just by strangulation. About all those being shot by guns.
This keeps happening, for decades, for centuries. What, in your opinion, has to be done to stop this from happening again and again and again?
We are starting here in America, where Americans, not just black and brown Americans, the white Americans, my white sisters and brothers, are taking to the streets and joining us, arm in arm, saying this has to stop. And there is a national cry for change within these police departments, across America. We have to do something with them, they've got to be reformed. Change has to happen in how policing is done in the United States of America.
Hollywood films on racism
From Spike Lee to Barry Jenkins, many directors have released films dealing with the issue of racism against African Americans in recent years. Here are some of the most significant.
Spike Lee has long made films critical of racist structures in the US. Pictured here is a still from his upcoming new film, "Da 5 Bloods." Lee had his directorial debut in the mid-1980s. Through films like his 1989 comedy-drama "Do the Right Thing," he became known for taking up serious topics, like inequality, with a touch of levity. "Da 5 Bloods" tells the story of four black Vietnam vets.
In 2014, African-American director Ava DuVernay depicted a high-point in the civil rights movement in 1965, when she traced the march of civil rights activists and others across Alabama between the cities Selma and Montgomery. The film was the subject of controversy in Hollywood; some speculated it had been passed over at the Oscars because actors had stood up for the rights of black Americans.
Image: Studiocanal
Controversy over Oscar-winning 'Green Book'
Peter Farrelly's "Green Book" won many awards, including the Oscar for Best Picture in 2019. But the story of a white chauffeur (Viggo Mortensen, l.) and a black pianist (Mahershala Ali), based on true events, was considered by critics to fit too easily into the "white savior" narrative and did not delve into the pain of racism against African Americans in the US deeply enough.
Image: picture alliance/AP/Universal/P. Perret
Best film in 2017: 'Moonlight'
"Moonlight," directed by Barry Jenkins, tells the story of an Afro-American homosexual man in three chapters. Convincing in its aesthetics, "Moonlight" is an example of a cinematic work that differentiates and subtly translates its theme without melodrama or sentimentality.
Image: picture alliance/AP Photo/D. Bornfriend
Original and surprising 'Get Out'
One of the most idiosyncratic contributions to the subject of racism in cinema is "Get Out" of 2017. Unlike many well-intentioned but sentimental Hollywood films, African-American director Jordan Peele focused on genres, depicting racism with elements of horror and comedy — an extremely original and convincing genre mix.
"12 Years a Slave," which opened in cinemas in 2013 and won the Oscar for best film the following year, takes a deep look back into the origins of slavery in the US. British director Steve McQueen staged the racist drama with prominent actors — thus winning over the Oscars' Academy.
Finally, another film that garnered an Oscar can be linked with the subject of racism, in a broad sense. The 2018 Marvel film "Black Panther" focused for the first time on a black superhero. Marvel Comics creaters Stan Lee and Jack Kirby invented the story characters in the 1960s at the height of the civil rights movement.
Image: picture-alliance/Marvel Studios
Sensitive approach: 'Loving'
In 2016, US director Jeff Nichols surprised audiences with the sensitive drama "Loving," another film that deals with a historical chapter of North American racism. It depicts the struggle of a couple who rebel against the law of forbidden mixed marriages — and succeed in court.
Image: picture-alliance/ZUMAPRESS.com/Focus Features
A loaded romance: 'Queen & Slim'
In 2019 Greek-American director Melina Matsoukas debuted with "Queen & Slim," a variation on "Bonnie & Clyde." Set in today's United States, a young black couple seeks refuge after the main character kills a cop in self-defense on their first date. Melina rose to fame for directing music videos for Rihanna and Beyoncé, among others.
Like Melina Matsoukas, John Cassavetes was also a white US director with Greek ancestry. His debut film, "Shadows" (1959), tells with great sensitivity the story of three African-American siblings in the New York music scene. At the time, few other directors in the US had come close to authentically portraying life in this artistic circle.
Image: picture-alliance/United Archives/IFTN
A look back: '12 Angry Men'
The 1957 film "12 Angry Men" was one of the first works of US cinema to deal with racism. Primarily a legal thriller, the film debut by director Sidney Lumet was about the prejudices of 12 white jurors in court, who are supposed to issue a verdict on a young Puerto Rican.
Image: picture-alliance/United Archives
Sidney Poitier in 'In the Heat of the Night'
In the 1960s the subject of racism gained a foothold in mainstream cinema. In the drama "In the Heat of the Night," Poitier plays a policeman from the North who has to solve a case down South. There, he is confronted with unfathomable racism. The film was awarded five Oscars — and Poitier became the first African-American superstar of US cinema.
Image: picture-alliance/United Archiv/TBM
Taboo-breaker: 'Mississippi Burning'
"Mississippi Burning," the 1988 film by Briton Alan Parker, tells of the disappearance of three civil rights activists and the ensuing FBI investigation. One critic wrote: "Parker's gimmicky directing (does) pretty much everything to turn 'Mississippi Burning' into a gangster movie rip-off. Yet the film breaks a taboo: it places a whole group of the white American middle-class in the wrong."
Image: ORION PICTURES CORPORATION
A new generation: 'Boyz n the Hood'
African-American director John Singleton made headlines with his first film in 1991, which he directed at age 24. "Boyz n the Hood" is considered groundbreaking for its authentic portrayal of the lives of the black population in an impoverished district of a major US city. He was the first black person, as well as the youngest person ever to be nominated for an Academy Award for Best Director.
White Hollywood stars often portray racism as something that happens outside of the USA. In the sports drama "Invictus," Clint Eastwood tells the sensational story of the South African national rugby team in the years after apartheid was abolished. Morgan Freeman played the role of freedom-fighter Nelson Mandela.
Image: AP
Documentary inspiration: 'I Am Not Your Negro'
Apart from the many feature films that American cinema has contributed to the subject of racism in recent decades, there are also documentaries. "I Am Not Your Negro" by Haitian director Raoul Peck of 2016 was very convincing. Peck relied heavily on texts by African-American writer James Baldwin.
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How much blame do you put on the man on top? President Trump, the man you call Agent Orange?
Why did you name him instead of me? I'm just joking, I know you have to have me say that. Agent Orange is going to go down as the worst president in the history of the United States. And it is funny now to see his allies, these generals and politicians are slowly starting to move away from him, because they can read the writing on the wall and they don't want to go down in history attached to this guy. To be written down as on the wrong side of history. With a capital W.
History, of course, is a big part of your new film, Da 5 Bloods. Why did you want to tell the story of African American soldiers in Vietnam?
Well there have been films with African American soldiers in them, Vietnam films. And I've got an homage [in Da 5 Bloods] to my favorite one, Apocalypse Now. Laurence Fishburne was 14 years old when he did that movie! But I just wanted to tell their stories.
African Americans have fought in every war that the US has fought.
In fact, the first American to die [at the Boston Massacre] was a black man, named Crispus Attucks!
Right, which you show in your film. But African Americans have been left out of almost ever Hollywood war movie. What do you think that has meant for American's sense of its own history?
They aren't getting the true story. And a lot of it starts with education, sir. When I, like many kids, when you go to school, you are taught that George Washington never told a lie. The first President of America, he chopped down the cherry tree and he fessed up to it. We were never taught that George Washington, the first President of America, owned 123 slaves. They left that out! On purpose!
It's been 31 years since you made Do the Right Thing and we are seeing the same thing happening again on the streets. Where do you see hope for the future?
The hope I see is with the millions of Americans who take to the streets. Them saying enough is enough: I see hope. And I'll feel more hopeful on November 4th, the day after the presidential election.
Spike Lee and his films
The US film director is known for being a longtime advocate of equality for African-Americans. Here's a look back at his life and most memorable films.
Image: Getty Images/P. Le Segretain
The moralist
This man has a message. Born 1957 in Atlanta, Georgia, Spike Lee is widely regarded as a film pioneer for African-American rights. His movies often tell stories of oppression and racism.
Image: Getty Images/P. Le Segretain
Spike Lee's roots
Spike Lee's mother was a teacher, which might explain the educational impetus of many of the director's films. His dad, a jazz musician and composer, also had an influence on Lee's works. Joy of life and a musical rhythm mark Lee's films, including "Do the Right Thing" from 1988.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives
Advocate of African-American culture
The director, who often acts in his own films, gave many aspiring young African-American actors the chance to build a film career. Denzel Washington, seen above with Lee in the 1990 drama film "Mo' Better Blues," went on to become a top Hollywood star.
Image: picture alliance/kpa
Breaking stereotypes
"Jungle Fever" in 1991 also starred actors little known back then, but well established today: Wesley Snipes and Halle Berry, with whom Lee had a relationship at the time. The film is about sexual attraction and an interracial relationship.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives
A divisive figure
A year later, Lee's most costly film at the time was released. "Malcom X" was a summary of everything the director felt was important. Denzel Washington plays the title role in the biopic about the life of the African-American activist, from his troubled childhood and conversion to Islam to his assassination in 1965.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives
Semi-autobiographical
School teacher, jazz musician and a bunch of kids - the 1994 film "Crooklyn" is about a family in New York in the 1970s, and clearly has numerous autobiographical elements. The memory of growing up in Brooklyn makes for a humorous and vibrant film.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives/IFTN
A hard life
The 1995 film "Clockers" takes on issues that have always moved Spike Lee: life and survival in neighborhoods riddled with drugs and crime and rocked by ethnic strife.
Just a year later, the film "Girl 6" tells the story of an aspiring actress who makes a living working for a telephone sex hotline. Short cameo appearances by Quentin Tarantino, Madonna and Naomi Campbell underline Lee's popularity.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives
Love of the game
A huge basketball fan, Spike Lee featured his favorite actor Denzel Washington in "He Got Game." The 1998 drama shows how firmly sports are rooted in American society.
Image: picture alliance / United Archives
Summer of Sam
Lee focused on another favorite topic in the 1999 film "Summer of Sam," namely the crime scene in New York and conflicts between different gangs. The film looks at the effect a real 1977 serial murder case had on a fictional group of people in the Bronx.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives
25 hours
Three years later, the director shot one of his best movies, "25th Hour." Edward Norton plays a drug dealer who has 25 hours before he goes to jail for seven years — a melancholy look at the transience of life and musings about what is really important.
Image: picture alliance/United Archives
Bank heist
The 2006 thriller "Inside Man" is proof that Spike Lee is also a master of commercial film. The movie about a bank robbery is entertaining, but also addresses issues close to the director's heart.
Image: picture alliance/kpa
Shift to documentaries
After "Inside Man," Spike Lee turned to documentaries, advertising films and music videos. "Off the Wall" is the story of Michael Jackson's early years, before he rose to international stardom.
Image: picture-alliance/AP/MJJ Productions
'No peace, no pussy'
"Chi-Raq" is a musical drama about gang crime and racism, with women leading a sex strike to get their husbands to stop gang violence in Chicago. The director based his story on the classic drama "Lysistrata" by ancient Greek playwright Aristophanes.
Image: Parrish Lewis
BlacKkKlansman
In "BlacKkKlansman," two police agents, one Jewish and one black, penetrate the Klu Klux Klan. A satire, Spike Lee's 2018 film is based on a true story from the 1970s — but also references current racial tensions in the US.
Image: D. Lee/F. Features
Da 5 Bloods
Four African American veterans return to Vietnam years after the war, searching for the remains of their squad leader. Spike Lee's latest film is released on Netflix on June 12, as massive protests against police brutality and racism are showing the urgency of reforming the system.