Why Kazuo Ishiguro used dragons to explore history
Sabine PeschelOctober 5, 2017
His novel "The Buried Giant" is written like an old folk tale, but comments on current issues at the heart of civil wars, family feuds and divorces. DW interviewed the 2017 Nobel Prize laureate two years ago.
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Nobel Literature Prize: The past 20 winners
Bob Dylan, Svetlana Alexievich, Annie Ernaux and now Han Kang. Here's a look back at the last 20 laureates of the prestigious literary award.
Image: DANIEL JANIN AFP via Getty Images
2024: Han Kang
Han Kang is the first South Korean author to win the Nobel Prize in literature, recognizing "her intense poetic prose that confronts historical traumas and exposes the fragility of human life." Her publication debut came as a poet in 1993; the Man Booker International Prize for fiction, awarded to her in 2016 for her novel "The Vegetarian," marked her global breakthrough.
Image: Yonhap/picture alliance
2023: Jon Fosse
The Norwegian playwright has had 1,000 productions of his plays staged in more than 50 languages. He is also the author of novels, poetry and children's books. The Nobel Prize committee selected the writer "for his innovative plays and prose which give voice to the unsayable." He is shown here at the National Book Awards in 2022, where he was a nominee for "A New Name: Septology VI-VII."
The French author, born in 1940, is renowned for her autobiographical prose works that go "beyond fiction in the narrow sense," said the Swedish Academy. Among others, her 2001 book "Happening" deals with her illegal abortion from the 1960s. She was selected "for the courage and clinical acuity with which she uncovers the roots, estrangements and collective restraints of personal memory."
Image: Christoph Hardt/Future Image/imago images
2021: Abdulrazak Gurnah
Tanzanian novelist Abdulrazak Gurnah won the Nobel Prize in literature in 2021 "for his uncompromising and compassionate penetration of the effects of colonialism," said the Swedish Academy. "His novels recoil from stereotypical descriptions and open our gaze to a culturally diversified East Africa unfamiliar to many in other parts of the world."
Image: Ger Harley/StockPix/picture alliance
2020: Louise Glück
Crowned with the Nobel Prize in literature in 2020, the American poet and essayist had already won major awards in the US, including the Pulitzer Prize and National Book Award, as well as the National Humanities Medal, which was presented by Barack Obama in 2016. Her most notable works include the "The Triumph of Achilles" (1985) and "The Wild Iris" (1992).
Image: Carolyn Kaster/AP/picture alliance
2019: Peter Handke
The Austrian author born in 1942 became famous with experimental plays such as "Offending the Audience" in 1966. He also co-wrote Wim Wenders films, including "Wings of Desire." The decision to award Handke the Nobel Prize was criticized since he is also known for his controversial positions on the Yugoslav wars. In 2014, he had also called the prize to be abolished, dubbing it a "circus."
Image: AFP/A. Jocard
2018: Olga Tokarczuk
The Polish writer was actually awarded the 2018 Nobel Prize in 2019, since it had been postponed for a year following scandals affecting the Swedish Academy, the body that chooses the laureates for the award. A two-time winner of Poland's top literary prize, the Nike Award, Tokarczuk was also honored in 2010 with the Man Booker International Prize for her novel "Flights."
Image: Imago Images/BE&W/B. Donat
2017: Kazuo Ishiguro
Japan-born British novelist, screenwriter and short story writer Kazuo Ishiguro won the 2017 award. His most renowned novel, "The Remains of the Day" (1989), was adapted into a movie starring Anthony Hopkins. His works deal with memory, time and self-delusion.
Image: Ben Stansall/AFP/Getty Images
2016: Bob Dylan
An atypical but world famous laureate: US songwriter Bob Dylan was awarded the Nobel Prize in literature in 2016. The Swedish Academy selected Dylan "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition."
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/D. Castello
2015: Svetlana Alexievich
Calling her work "a monument to suffering and courage in our time," the Swedish Academy honored the Belarusian author and investigative journalist in 2015. Alexievich is best known for her emotive firsthand accounts of war and suffering, including "War's Unwomanly Face" (1985) and "Voices from Chernobyl" (2005).
Image: Eastnews/Imago Images
2014: Patrick Modiano
The French writer's stories describe a universe of haunted cities, absentee parents, criminality and lost youths. They are all set in Paris with the shadow of World War II looming heavily in the background. The Swedish Academy described the novelist, whose work has often focused on the Nazi occupation of France, as "a Marcel Proust of our time."
Image: PATRICK KOVARIK/AFP
2013: Alice Munro
Canadian writer Alice Munro is no stranger to accolades, having received the Man Booker International Prize and the Canadian Governor General Literary Award three times over. The Swedish Academy called her a "master of the contemporary short story."
Image: CHAD HIPOLITO/empics/picture alliance
2012: Mo Yan
Guan Moye, better known under his pen name Mo Yan, was praised by the Swedish Academy as a writer "who with hallucinatory realism merges folk tales, history and the contemporary." The decision was criticized by Chinese dissidents like artist Ai Weiwei, who claimed Mo Yan was too close to the Chinese Communist Party and did not support fellow intellectuals who faced political repression
The academy chose Tomas Gosta Transtromer as the winner in 2011 "because, through his condensed, translucent images, he gives us fresh access to reality." In the 1960s, the Swedish poet worked as a psychologist at a center for juvenile offenders. His poetry has been translated into over 60 languages.
Image: Henrik Montgomery/epa/dpa/picture alliance
2010: Mario Vargas Llosa
The Peruvian novelist received the Nobel Prize "for his cartography of structures of power and his trenchant images of the individual's resistance, revolt, and defeat." In Latin America, he is famous for uttering the phrase "Mexico is the perfect dictatorship" on TV in 1990 and for punching his once-friend and fellow Nobel laureate, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, in the face in 1976.
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/A. Riedl
2009: Herta Müller
The German-Romanian author was awarded the Nobel Prize as a writer "who, with the concentration of poetry and the frankness of prose, depicts the landscape of the dispossessed." She is noted for her work criticizing the repressive communist regime of Nicolae Ceausescu in Romania, which she experienced herself. Müller writes in German and moved to West Berlin in 1987.
Image: Arno Burgi/dpa/picture alliance
2008: Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clezio
The Swedish Academy called J.M.G. Le Clezio an "author of new departures, poetic adventure and sensual ecstasy, explorer of a humanity beyond and below the reigning civilization." Le Clezio was born in Nice, France, in 1940 to a French mother and a Mauritian father. He holds dual citizenship and calls Mauritius his "little fatherland."
Image: ERNESTO BENAVIDES/AFP
2007: Doris Lessing
The 11th woman to win the award since its creation in 1901, British author Doris May Lessing (1919-2013) wrote novels, plays and short stories. The Nobel Prize recognized her for being a writer "who with skepticism, fire and visionary power has subjected a divided civilization to scrutiny." She also campaigned against nuclear weapons and the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
Image: Leonardo Cendamo/Leemage/picture alliance
2006: Orhan Pamuk
Ferit Orhan Pamuk, "who in the quest for the melancholic soul of his native city has discovered new symbols for the clash and interlacing of cultures," was the first Turkish author to be awarded the Nobel Prize in literature. With more than 13 million books sold, he is Turkey's bestselling writer. Pamuk was born in Istanbul and currently teaches at Columbia University in New York City.
Image: Peter Steffen/dpa/picture alliance
2005: Harold Pinter
Harold Pinter, "who in his plays uncovers the precipice under everyday prattle and forces entry into oppression's closed rooms," was awarded the Nobel Prize three years before his death from liver cancer. He died on Christmas Eve in 2008. The British playwright directed and acted in many radio and film productions of his own work. In total, he received more than 50 awards.
Image: Marx Memorial Libra/Mary Evans/picture alliance
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DW: How would you react to the following headline: '"Kazuo Ishiguro goes Game of Thrones"?
Kazuo Ishiguro: It might help to sell a few books, but I would fear that "Game of Thrones" fans might not like my book. I never went into this project thinking I'm going to write a book like Tolkien's or "Game of Thrones." I started out in a very different place: I was at first tempted to set my novel in a real modern historical setting.
Now your novel is set in Britain in the fifth century. Why did you choose that time and place as a setting for your book?
One thing that is appealing about that period is that nobody knows really what happened. There is a big blank of almost a hundred years in British history between when the Romans left and when the Anglo-Saxons settled – it's a kind of a memory lapse. There is no historical evidence. That gives me a certain amount of freedom as a novelist.
"The Buried Giant" is not a history book, it is a very entertaining novel. Is it pure fantasy? Or a novel beyond any genre?
I'm not very good with genres, I don't really understand them. When I try to write a book I'm never really thinking very conscientiously about genres. How I write is that I start with an idea that I very much want to express. And that idea often isn't set in any time or place. These are often ideas that I have written down and thought about. The different tools and elements that I needed, that I thought would work best for this novel just ended up being things like dragons and ogres.
The key questions in this novel were: When is it better for a nation to forget some dark passages from its recent history and when is it better to face these bad memories? When is it better to forget, when is it better to remember? I wanted to create a story that felt almost like an old folktale to suggest that this is something that human beings go through throughout history. As long as we have existed as human beings, we have divided ourselves into tribes and we had to struggle with this question about societal memory. These questions keep coming back to haunt humanity over and over again.
Isn't this a very difficult question for a novel that comes in the disguise of a fantasy tale?
It is also really a love story. I'm not only concerned with nations remembering or forgetting. Many families, many marriages have dark episodes that everyone has agreed to just forget in order to allow the bond to strengthen again. But the same question emerges there too: How long can you carry on agreeing to be silent? Can you just go on forever and ever like that? Probably not - at some point these dark issues show up again.
A very important aspect of my novel is a story about an old couple who have lost their memories. And they want them back. But they also fear what would happen when the bad memories come back with the good memories. Will it destroy their love? They happen to live in a society that is also threatened by memories coming back – the reemergence of these memories could lead to civil war.
That's what the story of "Buried Giant" is about: A mysterious forgetfulness has fallen over the land, but do people want the memories to come back or not?
Have you found an answer?
I wasn't really looking for an answer. Because I knew from the beginning there is no simple answer. I just wanted to articulate this question for the readers: Isn't this one of the central questions that we have struggled with throughout our lives, both as nations and as individual human beings?
Your novel might suggest that it is not always good for societies to remember and openly discuss everything. Is that true?
Every country I can think of has something that they have buried from their history.
There is almost like an agreement: Be silent about it. And sometimes there is a very good reason to do that because it stops a further cycle of war and violence. It may stop a society from disintegrating altogether. And the same thing can apply to a family or to a marriage.
The book does not claim that it is good to forget or that we should always remember. As a novelist, I'm not arguing any kind of thesis. What I'm trying to do is to capture the emotions of ordinary people who are caught in these dilemmas. I don't write novels in order to make any kind of point. If that were my goal, I'd rather write a disciplined essay.
To always, always remember is often a weapon that is used by political leaders who want to preserve a hatred in the community and to prolong a war. For Germans, at a particular point in history, the danger was not to remember enough. It can be very dangerous as well to ignore the danger of memory being used as a weapon for hatred and to mobilize militarism.
In Germany there is a strong belief that it is important to be very conscious of our historical past. The topic of our historical and cultural memory is often discussed. In Asia it's very different, people often tell you, they cannot afford to look at the past, that one has to look towards the future. Is your novel a discussion on this fine line?
It's a kind of a discussion. Human beings have always struggled to find a balance. How much forgetting is desirable? How much remembering is desirable? Since I'm here in Germany I have to say West Germany after the Second World War is an example where that balance was achieved in an almost perfect way. But I think there are times when it is necessary to forget, to allow a society to rebuild itself and not descent into civil war and disintegration. There is never an easy answer to how you achieve that balance.
Forgetting too much means that terrible injustices go unpunished and you build up a huge amount of hatred and anger on the part of the people who feel they have suffered.
But if you remember too much, then a society could fall into a never-ending cycle of revenge and hatred. And we can see many parts of the world, like the Middle East, where they just can't stop the cycle. Perhaps the best thing there would be some sort of memory loss. Just so there is a chance for peace to come.
Migration – the overwhelming topic of our days – is something that happened throughout history. Your novel is a historical fantasy set at the end of the Iron Age when the Roman-Celtic powers were overtaken by Anglo-Saxon immigrants. Can your book be read as a commentary on current events and the recent past?
I started writing the novel about 15 years ago, so obviously I wasn't thinking about the current refugee crises. But when I started to think about how to write this story I was actually thinking about the wars in old Yugoslavia as it disintegrated, and particularly what happened in Bosnia, where two groups of people who had been living in peace for at least one generation suddenly turned on each other and committed terrible violence. And a similar thing happened in Rwanda in the 90s as well.
So my starting point for this story was this question about a nation where people from different traditions and different religious believe to have learned, apparently, to live side by side and actually become friendly and then for some reason something comes along, often triggered by some dark memory of enmity from the past, and terrible violence breaks out.
My novel is about wars, so it is perhaps about the things that produce the refugees. We see the refugees as a kind of symptom, but at the heart of the problem are wars and huge, violent differences. The violence that obliges people to abandon their homes and take great risks and even die, trying to find safety.
This interview was conducted by Sabine Peschel in September 2015.
Nobel Literature Prize: The past 20 winners
Bob Dylan, Svetlana Alexievich, Annie Ernaux and now Han Kang. Here's a look back at the last 20 laureates of the prestigious literary award.
Image: DANIEL JANIN AFP via Getty Images
2024: Han Kang
Han Kang is the first South Korean author to win the Nobel Prize in literature, recognizing "her intense poetic prose that confronts historical traumas and exposes the fragility of human life." Her publication debut came as a poet in 1993; the Man Booker International Prize for fiction, awarded to her in 2016 for her novel "The Vegetarian," marked her global breakthrough.
Image: Yonhap/picture alliance
2023: Jon Fosse
The Norwegian playwright has had 1,000 productions of his plays staged in more than 50 languages. He is also the author of novels, poetry and children's books. The Nobel Prize committee selected the writer "for his innovative plays and prose which give voice to the unsayable." He is shown here at the National Book Awards in 2022, where he was a nominee for "A New Name: Septology VI-VII."
The French author, born in 1940, is renowned for her autobiographical prose works that go "beyond fiction in the narrow sense," said the Swedish Academy. Among others, her 2001 book "Happening" deals with her illegal abortion from the 1960s. She was selected "for the courage and clinical acuity with which she uncovers the roots, estrangements and collective restraints of personal memory."
Image: Christoph Hardt/Future Image/imago images
2021: Abdulrazak Gurnah
Tanzanian novelist Abdulrazak Gurnah won the Nobel Prize in literature in 2021 "for his uncompromising and compassionate penetration of the effects of colonialism," said the Swedish Academy. "His novels recoil from stereotypical descriptions and open our gaze to a culturally diversified East Africa unfamiliar to many in other parts of the world."
Image: Ger Harley/StockPix/picture alliance
2020: Louise Glück
Crowned with the Nobel Prize in literature in 2020, the American poet and essayist had already won major awards in the US, including the Pulitzer Prize and National Book Award, as well as the National Humanities Medal, which was presented by Barack Obama in 2016. Her most notable works include the "The Triumph of Achilles" (1985) and "The Wild Iris" (1992).
Image: Carolyn Kaster/AP/picture alliance
2019: Peter Handke
The Austrian author born in 1942 became famous with experimental plays such as "Offending the Audience" in 1966. He also co-wrote Wim Wenders films, including "Wings of Desire." The decision to award Handke the Nobel Prize was criticized since he is also known for his controversial positions on the Yugoslav wars. In 2014, he had also called the prize to be abolished, dubbing it a "circus."
Image: AFP/A. Jocard
2018: Olga Tokarczuk
The Polish writer was actually awarded the 2018 Nobel Prize in 2019, since it had been postponed for a year following scandals affecting the Swedish Academy, the body that chooses the laureates for the award. A two-time winner of Poland's top literary prize, the Nike Award, Tokarczuk was also honored in 2010 with the Man Booker International Prize for her novel "Flights."
Image: Imago Images/BE&W/B. Donat
2017: Kazuo Ishiguro
Japan-born British novelist, screenwriter and short story writer Kazuo Ishiguro won the 2017 award. His most renowned novel, "The Remains of the Day" (1989), was adapted into a movie starring Anthony Hopkins. His works deal with memory, time and self-delusion.
Image: Ben Stansall/AFP/Getty Images
2016: Bob Dylan
An atypical but world famous laureate: US songwriter Bob Dylan was awarded the Nobel Prize in literature in 2016. The Swedish Academy selected Dylan "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition."
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/D. Castello
2015: Svetlana Alexievich
Calling her work "a monument to suffering and courage in our time," the Swedish Academy honored the Belarusian author and investigative journalist in 2015. Alexievich is best known for her emotive firsthand accounts of war and suffering, including "War's Unwomanly Face" (1985) and "Voices from Chernobyl" (2005).
Image: Eastnews/Imago Images
2014: Patrick Modiano
The French writer's stories describe a universe of haunted cities, absentee parents, criminality and lost youths. They are all set in Paris with the shadow of World War II looming heavily in the background. The Swedish Academy described the novelist, whose work has often focused on the Nazi occupation of France, as "a Marcel Proust of our time."
Image: PATRICK KOVARIK/AFP
2013: Alice Munro
Canadian writer Alice Munro is no stranger to accolades, having received the Man Booker International Prize and the Canadian Governor General Literary Award three times over. The Swedish Academy called her a "master of the contemporary short story."
Image: CHAD HIPOLITO/empics/picture alliance
2012: Mo Yan
Guan Moye, better known under his pen name Mo Yan, was praised by the Swedish Academy as a writer "who with hallucinatory realism merges folk tales, history and the contemporary." The decision was criticized by Chinese dissidents like artist Ai Weiwei, who claimed Mo Yan was too close to the Chinese Communist Party and did not support fellow intellectuals who faced political repression
The academy chose Tomas Gosta Transtromer as the winner in 2011 "because, through his condensed, translucent images, he gives us fresh access to reality." In the 1960s, the Swedish poet worked as a psychologist at a center for juvenile offenders. His poetry has been translated into over 60 languages.
Image: Henrik Montgomery/epa/dpa/picture alliance
2010: Mario Vargas Llosa
The Peruvian novelist received the Nobel Prize "for his cartography of structures of power and his trenchant images of the individual's resistance, revolt, and defeat." In Latin America, he is famous for uttering the phrase "Mexico is the perfect dictatorship" on TV in 1990 and for punching his once-friend and fellow Nobel laureate, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, in the face in 1976.
Image: picture-alliance/dpa/A. Riedl
2009: Herta Müller
The German-Romanian author was awarded the Nobel Prize as a writer "who, with the concentration of poetry and the frankness of prose, depicts the landscape of the dispossessed." She is noted for her work criticizing the repressive communist regime of Nicolae Ceausescu in Romania, which she experienced herself. Müller writes in German and moved to West Berlin in 1987.
Image: Arno Burgi/dpa/picture alliance
2008: Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clezio
The Swedish Academy called J.M.G. Le Clezio an "author of new departures, poetic adventure and sensual ecstasy, explorer of a humanity beyond and below the reigning civilization." Le Clezio was born in Nice, France, in 1940 to a French mother and a Mauritian father. He holds dual citizenship and calls Mauritius his "little fatherland."
Image: ERNESTO BENAVIDES/AFP
2007: Doris Lessing
The 11th woman to win the award since its creation in 1901, British author Doris May Lessing (1919-2013) wrote novels, plays and short stories. The Nobel Prize recognized her for being a writer "who with skepticism, fire and visionary power has subjected a divided civilization to scrutiny." She also campaigned against nuclear weapons and the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
Image: Leonardo Cendamo/Leemage/picture alliance
2006: Orhan Pamuk
Ferit Orhan Pamuk, "who in the quest for the melancholic soul of his native city has discovered new symbols for the clash and interlacing of cultures," was the first Turkish author to be awarded the Nobel Prize in literature. With more than 13 million books sold, he is Turkey's bestselling writer. Pamuk was born in Istanbul and currently teaches at Columbia University in New York City.
Image: Peter Steffen/dpa/picture alliance
2005: Harold Pinter
Harold Pinter, "who in his plays uncovers the precipice under everyday prattle and forces entry into oppression's closed rooms," was awarded the Nobel Prize three years before his death from liver cancer. He died on Christmas Eve in 2008. The British playwright directed and acted in many radio and film productions of his own work. In total, he received more than 50 awards.
Image: Marx Memorial Libra/Mary Evans/picture alliance